How to Create a Client Attraction System, with Raul Hernandez-Ochoa

Episode 57

Unlocking the Power of Client Attraction Systems

In today’s competitive B2B landscape, agencies, business coaches, and consultants face the constant challenge of consistently attracting the right-fit clients to fuel profitable growth. The latest episode of the Sell with Authority podcast, hosted by Stephen Wessner, CEO of Predictive ROI, dives deep into how to create effective client attraction systems that don’t just generate leads but build long-term, high-value relationships. Stephen’s expert guest, Raul Hernandez Ochoa, founder of Do Good Work, shares his proven strategies for doubling to even quintupling agency revenues by building scalable and strategic client attraction frameworks. If you want to break free from the “sea of sameness” and future-proof your business with a system designed for sustainable success, this episode offers practical, tactical advice you won’t want to miss.

Designing Client Attraction Systems That Align with Your Business Vision

Raul emphasizes the importance of aligning client attraction efforts with the business owner’s vision and ideal experience. A standout insight from the podcast is that success isn’t just about the destination but also about enjoying the journey and being selective about the clients you serve. Instead of saying “yes” to every prospect, agencies should focus their client attraction systems on drawing in the right clients who fit their mission and values. This approach, Raul explains, not only improves client satisfaction but creates a more enjoyable and sustainable growth process for agency teams.

Strategically, this means businesses should clarify their own goals: What does the ideal day look like? What level of involvement do you want? What types of client relationships will you say “yes” or “no” to? Designing your client attraction system around these answers ensures you not only attract more prospects but cultivate the right opportunities aligned with your growth plans.

Building a Client Attraction System for 2x to 5x Revenue Growth

One of the episode’s most compelling themes is how client attraction ties directly into significant revenue growth—doubling to even quintupling revenues. Raul breaks down this growth into three interconnected “machines” every business must optimize:

• Marketing Machine: The engine that attracts and nurtures right-fit leads.
• Product Machine: Delivering results and fulfilling client expectations.
• Operations Machine: The system that seamlessly connects marketing and product fulfillment.

Optimizing your client attraction system means assessing where your business has strengths or gaps across these areas and ensuring your marketing accurately positions your services to attract clients who will embrace your value—especially when pricing and service offerings evolve. For example, raising prices without adjusting your client attraction framework risks losing new clients. Raul highlights that scalability happens when all three areas reinforce each other harmoniously, allowing agencies to confidently raise prices, improve service, and grow profitably.

Finding Your Next Horizon: Evolving Your Client Attraction System Strategically

Growth isn’t just about leaping ahead; it’s about knowing what’s the right next step—or next horizon—to evolve your client attraction system without disrupting what already works. Raul shares valuable advice on how to approach this strategic progression by listening closely to your team and client feedback, analyzing market trends, and connecting your service offerings to where your clients are headed. It’s about embracing new offers or market segments by building on a solid foundation rather than chasing shiny distractions.

This thoughtful approach helps agencies avoid burnout, maintain team alignment, and sustain growth over the long term. By asking key questions—what to say “yes” to, what to say “no” to, and how to evolve pricing and value ladders—business owners can future-proof their client attraction systems and create scalable engines for profitable business growth.

Take Action: Build Your Own Client Attraction System Today

If you’re ready to stop chasing mediocre leads and start attracting your ideal clients consistently, this podcast episode is packed with actionable insights that can transform your approach immediately. From defining your business vision and ideal clients to strategically aligning marketing, product, and operations, the keys to a high-impact client attraction system are within your reach.

Don’t miss the opportunity to tap into Raul Hernandez Ochoa’s expertise and Stephen Wessner’s proven frameworks. Ready to create a client attraction system that fills your sales pipeline with right-fit prospects who are eager to work with you? Visit Predictive ROI today and discover how we can help you build your authority and scale your business the smart way.

 

On today’s episode of Sell With Authority, I am joined by Raul-Hernandez Ochoa. Raul is the founder of Do Good Work, which is a digital growth consulting practice that helps agencies, business coaches, and strategic consultants achieve profitable growth.

Raul and his team have a track record of helping clients 2x to 5x their revenues by applying their productive profits strategies. He has a depth of expertise in helping clients productize their services, which makes it easier for a prospective client to say yes and begin working with an agency, or perhaps open an entirely new market, or new revenue stream for the agency.

Additionally, Raul has expertise in encouraging clients to embrace and incorporate AI into their business models. We are exploring the principles of growth and scaling in the digital age.

What you will learn in this episode:

• Why the key to growth and scaling isn’t always about growth for growth’s sake
• The importance of aligning clients to marketing, product, and operations
• Raul’s insights on applying productive profits strategies to achieve 2x to 5x revenue growth
• How to avoid commoditization and instead position unique value propositions to right-fit prospects
• Raul’s three-tier approach when it comes to looking at acquisition or designing acquisition models
• Two really big topics we will cover in Raul’s upcoming encore interview

Resources:

• Website: https://dogoodwork.io/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dogoodwork/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/dogoodwork/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/rherochoa
• Growth Plan Book: https://dogoodwork.io/growth-plan
• High-Impact Resources for SWA Listeners: https://dogoodwork.io/swa
• Productive Profits Book: https://www.amazon.com/Productive-Profits-Founders-Scaling-Impact/dp/B085K5S5XZ

Full Episode Transcript

How to Create a Client Attraction System: Full Episode Transcript

Welcome to the Sell with Authority podcast. I’m Stephen Wessner, CEO of Predictive ROI. And my team and I, we created this podcast specifically for you. So if you’re an agency owner, a business coach, or a strategic consultant,
and you’re looking to fill your sales pipeline
with a steady stream of right-fit prospects and get the at-bats, right? The leaves with the right-fit prospects that you need in order to build and scale,
then you’re in the right place.

Do you want proven strategies for becoming the known expert in your niche
and attracting all the clients you need? Yep, we’re going to cover that. You want to learn how to step away from the sea of sameness
so you actually stand out from your competitors and own the ground you’re standing on. Yeah, we’re going to cover that too. Do you want to future-proof your business so you can successfully navigate those next challenges
that you know are going to come your way?

Well, absolutely, we will help you there as well. I promise you, each episode of this podcast will contain valuable insights,
tangible examples, and best practices,
never theory from thought leaders, experts, owners,
who have done exactly what you’re working hard to do. So I want you to think practical and tactical, never any fluff. Each of our guests have built a position of authority
and then monetized that position by growing their audience, by nurturing leads,
and yes, by converting sales, but all the while they did it by being helpful. So every time someone from their audience turned around,
there they were with a helpful answer to an important question.

So the right fit prospects never ever were made to feel like a prospect. I also promise you, every strategy that we discuss,
every tool we recommend will be shared in full transparency in each episode
so you can become the known expert in your niche,
so you can fill your sales pipeline with a steady stream of right fit clients
who are never ever made to feel like one of your prospects. Okay, so I am excited for you to meet our very special guest expert today,
Raul Hernandez Ochoa. Now, if you’re meeting Raul for the first time,
he is the founder of Do Good Work, a digital growth consulting practice
that helps agencies, business coaches, and strategic consultants,
that’s our tribe here at Predictive and with this podcast,
helping them achieve profitable growth. So let’s take that a little bit deeper
because it’ll shine a bright light on some of the big,
I mean, these are big topics that he and I are going to walk through during this conversation.

So Raul and his team, they help owners attract clients, yay for that,
and as a result, they’re able to 2x to 5x, let me give,
those are super impressive numbers, they’re able to 2x to 5x revenues
by applying what he calls their productive profits strategies,
and we’re going to slice that apart. So when Raul and I crossed paths
and I learned about his track record for helping 2x’ing to 5x’ing revenue,
again, pretty impressive numbers, I thought,
yes, I want to connect on the show
and I would love to learn more about the how behind those results
because it sounds like Raul and his team,
he built a phenomenal client attraction system,
but also they have expertise in pricing strategies
and value ladders that would be helpful to learn more about. So in addition to Raul and I talking through client attraction,
he also has a depth of expertise in helping clients productize their services,
which makes it easier for a prospective client to say,
yes, and begin working with an agency
or perhaps open an entirely new market or new revenue streams for the agency. And holy bananas, if we get through all of that, everyone,
and there’s still some time left,
we might be able to sneak in how Raul is encouraging his clients
to embrace and incorporate AI into their business models. Although candidly, as we all know, the AI topic is pretty darn big.

Understanding Client Attraction Systems

So we might have to wait for an encore in order to be able to do that justice,
but we’ll see how all of this flows together. So without further ado,
welcome to the Sell with Authority podcast, Raul. Steven, thank you for having me. Let’s dive in. This is going to be a lot of fun.

So in case one of our listeners is meeting you for the first time,
give us two, three minutes of context around your path and journey,
and then we’ll dive in with what I’m sure is going to feel like a barrage
or litany of questions that are going to be firing your way. It’s going to be fun. So Raul from San Diego, California,
I surf on occasion, not too often,
and I built a practice just to help business owners in the 1 to 5 to 10 million range
to either double or to reach the eight-figure plus mark. Thankfully, these strategies were developed from actually applying them
and testing them and getting punched in the face by real life and learning. And the key thing really is that I focus on the principles of aligning the clients
that you want to serve.

to the marketing, the products and the operations that align for growth and open the possibilities
of what’s possible in a business. This isn’t always like scaling or growth for growth’s sake, it’s more a strategic approach
of where do you as a business owner want to be in your business? What is your ideal day look like? What’s your level of involvement? And what will you absolutely say no to?

And what will you absolutely say yes to? I think there’s a key to design towards enjoying the experience, because as business owners
we’re going to be doing this for how many years, even if you want to do an exit in the
next three to five years, like a lot of the owners that I talked to, they want a liquidity
event. The experience still matters, the experience matters for you, it matters for your team. So I also take that into corporation when we come to design and everything else around
the business umbrella. Okay, so I love how you said that there, because as you, not that you need my validation, but
this is why I say that I love that, because it feels philosophical, but not just like
philosophical in a lofty sense.

And that was an aha for me, like, oh, well, okay, so that’s why he named the practice
Do Good Work, because it’s not just about building and scaling by doing client work
with awful clients, like the wrong fit client, I mean, because that would be, that would
feel awful. People do it. But why do it? And I think that’s what you’re saying is that the work should matter, the clients that you
serve should matter. The people you say yes to saying yes, matters and stop saying no to wrong fits, like, so
how you get there is just as important about getting there.

The Role of Client Attraction Systems in Agency Growth

Am I tracking with you? 100% the journey determines the destination. And sometimes we get the destination as the only end goal, and we could like, corrupt
the journey for that. Oh, that’s, that’s great. Okay.

So I’m so anxious, anxious. That’s not the right word excited. That’s a positive way to say it. I’m so excited to get into like, the two x in a five x thing. Again, when you and I were going back and forth, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, that’s going
to be a fun topic.

So I’m seeing sort of two sides of kind of this piece, the two x in a five x. And here’s what I mean by that. Is that when we think about two x in a five x in revenue, that can absolutely come from
a pricing strategy, you just five x your price, and people bought it because there’s good
value and all of that. So I know that pricing strategy is a part of it. But then also, it’s the client attraction piece, the making sure that you’re attracting
now clients who are going to be a right fit for the new pricing model.

So I know that this is a big topic. So how do you think we ought to start slicing our way through that, and breaking it into
smaller nuggets? Yeah, I mean, so I think by definitions, it’s always definitions than the action around
it. So when we talk about two to five x, it’s not just a fancy number, this is real revenue
and not like we’re making 10 grand a month and 50. It’s it’s companies who are making millions in revenue and some millions in profit.

So I think the profits and under underestimated or overlooked thing, we all took a look at
the top line, we forget, bottom line is important. So that’s the definition around the actual growth. I think the key thing around this is knowing that you have to have product market fit. This isn’t just from the start in the get go, because in the start of the get go, we
all say yes to the wrong projects, we just creation is messy, right? We need to go go fast and get as many clients and momentum and sales and marketing as we
get.

Key Strategies for Client Attraction Systems

But then you have this pivot point where you’re looking at what’s the next horizon, we’re
having a momentum of success, what are the strategic next steps to look at? And there’s three parts of every company that I’ve broken down and this is not like a generalization,
but every company has their marketing, that marketing machine, which drives sales. They have the product machine that fulfills client expectations and fulfills on client
outcomes. And then with the operations, that is the conveyor belt that can that connects both
together. And I think if we look at a company in those three simple terms, we can dissect different
strategies depending on where you need the most support.

Some clients and teams, they’re exceptional at sales, like some of the best salespeople
that I’ve ever worked with. But when it comes to the operations and the growth, we have lack or we need support there. Sometimes the operations of the product fulfillment are excellent, but the positioning or the
client attraction is incorrect. And then the pricing might be too low. So it really depends like where we want to dive in, we can just dive in from the marketing
all the way back to operations.

So what do you think, Steven? Well, this is okay, fascinating. So thanks for tossing that back to me. For us getting, um, let’s go into, well, a couple of things that I was putting into
my notes. I’d like for us to have this conversation or a deeper conversation around the horizon
and how to figure out then what is the next horizon before trying to like leap seven levels
when realistically we should work on the next level.

So, so I’d like to go there. And then also when you mentioned like client attraction isn’t correct. So how we suss that out and then importantly how we fix it. Let’s first talk about the, when you said what’s the next horizon, how do you help an
owner figure out realistically what is the next horizon? I love that question.

I’ll tell you a fascinating story or like a remark that a client mentioned and he told
me, well, when I make decisions with the team, I always tell them, don’t give up something
good. or something great for something new. Ooh. I thought that was really fascinating because he is in that point right now. He’s a small business owner.

Why Client Attraction Systems Matters Today

It’s a lean team. They want to triple this year. They want to hit, I think, 12 or 15 million. But he doesn’t know what is the next offer? What is the ascension?

What does that look like? How do we serve the clients at a higher level in a way where it doesn’t burn me out? What does the team look like? So I think the question always goes back to the business owner. When you’re looking at the horizons, there’s the philosophical, what are you called to?

Where are you leading your life and your business, your team, et cetera? So once you solidify that, the business tangibles, what I do is I go in and develop a growth plan. And typically, it’s all around, who are your clients today? Where is the market heading to? How do we align your clients with their desires and what they’re actually thinking and going through
in alignment to your product and services?

And then I dissect product and services into core emotions. What are you actually fulfilling on? What is your actual promise? What is the big aha? You’re not doing services.

You’re not doing SEO. You’re not doing, like, that’s the tangible. Those are the hands, right? Those are the hands at work. But what does that give the other person?

Implementing Client Attraction Systems in Your Business

And when you dissect product based on the core emotion, then you align that to your best customers or clients that you want to work with. You can identify new offers. You can identify ascension plans. Or if you’re doing the same and you want to do more of the same, then it’s an operational scale factor in building a right team that’s scalable. Ideally, in a remote environment where they can scale remote, where you’re not always having to micromanage.

And from there, it’s just repetition. The key thing is time. It’s knowing what to do and putting the right principles in action, but sustaining that over the experience that we all have to go through, which is time. This is great. I’m sorry for the pause.

I was just reflecting on my notes here because I could take this in a number of different ways. So here’s how I will kind of take that piece a little bit deeper. So when you started out with the growth plan and then the very next thing you said, who are your clients today? Here’s why I think that that’s savvy and so on point. Because I think oftentimes it’s whatever the numbers are.

If it’s $100,000 a month or $200,000 a month, whatever the monthly recurring is or whatever the agency’s billings are, it’s really lovely to say the average client investment right now or the average client value on a monthly basis is five grand, eight grand, whatever. And it’s like, gosh, we’d love to be at 20,000 a month. Like, okay, but would any of your current clients support that? And if the answer is no, then it’s like, okay, could you attract clients at 20,000? Like, could you develop a dream 25 list who could afford $20,000 a month and that sort of investment?

Yes. But that also means pivoting the business to also then attract so that they think that you’re worthy of that level of business and you can actually deliver those outcomes. So that’s why I thought that that was fascinating and really savvy when you said growth plan. And then who are your clients today? Because there may be a significant gap in the to your point time.

Common Mistakes with Client Attraction Systems

It’s going to take us time to evolve the business to get there. Right. Am I tracking with you? I’m 100% on point. I love the idea of thinking about building for today because, I mean, we’re always doing both.

We’re building for today, the necessities of today, but we’re also building for the potential of the future. And that gap, we need to make sure that we have the solid foundation first. So in your example here, if I have clients that are doing the LTV is eight to 12 months, the AOV or the average for the client is going to be, I don’t know, 150,000, depending on those 12 months or 10 months. Okay. So if you want to start attracting whales and do three to five deals a year, like I have one gentleman who’s like, I just want to do that.

And then focus on like product high services on a peripheral. Like that’s a great plan. But like, where are you right now? Who is your highest LTV client? Why are they your highest LTV client?

What can we dissect from that? And what are their current goals or what opportunities are happening to them in their business market trends? When you solve one problem, what other problems arise? Looking at that in a very, almost like niching down again. Sometimes this exercise is very uncomfortable.

Like I have a team right now, they’re a membership site, right? They’re growing and they’re uncomfortable with niching down based on highest LTV because they fear quality. And I think that’s one thing that we’ll always have resistance with as business owners. One, change of like, this is how we’ve always done it. And then second, we’re always wanting to do something new, something bigger versus doubling down on what currently is working.

The Future of Client Attraction Systems

Because the philosophy that we hear a lot of the times is what got you here won’t get you there. Typically, that’s not true. What got you here, got you here. What are the principles that got you there? Because they’re not significantly different to get you to the next level.

There’s a different level of expertise. There’s a different level of output. That is true. But the principles usually remain the same. Okay.

Let’s go back to a piece that when you mentioned the uncomfortable with niching down. I think that this is sort of unplanned, but this could be like the unplanned golden nugget or one of in this conversation. Because clearly …
You’re helping clients sort of rationalize with that decision the importance of niching
down. And it sounds like you’ve been in those conversations where there’s some friction. So why, using your word, or phrase, uncomfortable with niching down, let’s take that a little
bit deeper.

So why the uncomfortableness? Pitching-holing yourself never feels comfortable, but when you have a very specific solution
for a very specific somebody, and you become known for that transformation, you can actually
decommoditize yourself. And I see this a lot with agencies where, or even any service provider really, where
you’re known for a thing, and either you’re billing by the hour, which you’ll always be
time poor if you bill by the hour, or you’re telling them how many hoops and how high you’ll
jump for the client and how available you’ll be, you’ll tell them the litany of the things
that you’ll do for them, versus here’s the thing that I actually do, and this is the
outcome. I’ll give you a real story. Okay.

One of my long-term clients, amazing team, I love their team, they’ve been working for
years now, and right now they’re doing, hey, we’ll do this for this price point, and we’ll
do this creative for you, this tech for you, and these hours for you, et cetera. And that’s great. It’s like the client feels cool, like, hey, I have this team, they’re also taking care
of my website, they’re taking care of my creative, it’s a feel-good factor, but that’s not what
they bought the company, that’s not what they hired them to do. They’re not cheap, right? So they didn’t hire them just for that.

Expert Insights on Client Attraction Systems

They hired them for at the end of X month, they’re going to have X amount of revenue
in their business. That’s the promise, that’s the big aha, that’s what I’m buying you and hiring you for. When you reposition based on what’s the key outcome you’re going to get from working with
me, when you reposition on the outcome, to be frank, the client doesn’t care and doesn’t
even know what it takes to get there. All they know is that I give you the money, I get outcome. And I know that’s very caveman, very brute, and very simple terms.

But I think we sometimes miss the point and start talking about, well, here’s how many
hours you get from us, here’s the team, here’s the communication, here’s all the nice and
fancy bells and whistles versus. If you work with us, we’re going to hit milestones, here’s the expectations that you can have
at this milestone, this is what we’re expecting to have. Here’s the outcome that you’re going to get for your business, it’s either going to save
you money or make you money. You want to work with us. I think it’s fantastic because you’re changing the game of the conversation.

And you’re changing the game in the conversation from hours, deliverables, process, flowcharts,
project management, that kind of stuff. And it’s not that those things are not important, they’re necessary in order to deliver the
outcomes. But when a client can say to you, okay, I understand you have a method, you have a process,
you have a thing, and I may have some questions about it, candidly feels a little bit like
mystic dark magic voodoo. I trust you because I know some of the people that you’ve done this for, but here’s how
I’m understanding it. If I give you a dollar, you’re going to give me four back, right?

Yes, you give us a dollar and we’ll give you four back. And then typically what ends up happening is client says, okay, how often can we keep
doing that? That’s the key thing. And I think I talked to another agency owner and actually meeting him this week at a summit. The fear is sometimes we haven’t, this is in their perspective, we haven’t been held
accountable to results.

And I feel like there’s going to be a reckoning for agencies or service providers that just
do the work and don’t attach themselves to an end outcome. My favorite philosophy around revenue is that everyone on the team owns the number. The executives own the number, the financial people own the number, the account managers
own the number. And it’s not because it’s just growth and that’s our only objective and that’s our only
number one value in the company, no. But it is an emphasis when you do good work, you have to produce value for your team or
the client, for your community, for your family.

Mastering Client Attraction Systems

It’s a, what is it? The shareholder or the stakeholder economics, instead of just making profit and cut everyone
to make that profit, it’s who is involved to make this revenue, to make this profit,
because that is the lifeblood of a company, it’s the lifeblood of the value that we deliver. Uh, that’s so great. Okay, so let’s, let’s rewind by maybe 10 minutes or so when, when you mentioned when you went
through like the three parts, uh, marketing machine, product machine ops, um, and then
when you were talking about growth plan and then what your, what, who are your clients
today? Then as you were going further through that, you mentioned client attraction isn’t correct.

And I put that in my notes. I’m like, Oh, okay. We need to loop back to that piece because I would love to get his perspective on a couple
of things. One, what determines if client attraction is correct or isn’t, and then how do we fix
that? How do we make it better?

How do we optimize that? Whatever word you want to use. So, so let’s go into that piece. The client attraction isn’t correct. Let’s uh, let’s actually do a real like case study and a real example where I developed
a strategy.

So a buddy of mine, he runs a podcasting company and he was attracting people, uh, at a very
low tier, uh, ticket level. Like it’s a product type service. He can, he was charging nominal and he was able to pump it out cause he was leveraging
the new technologies, automations and the team he’s, he’s, he’s extremely savvy when
it comes to this. I think he hired like his own, like a professor, like doctor to. to work into the system.

However, he identified that I want to be working with this industry,
this particular industry, like the white collar industry, and they value the work that I do more. And particularly, the work that I do for them hits their middle of the funnel, where it’s
marketing to existing clients, it’s marketing to new clients, it increases their wallet share. It also increases return back to the office to do more work and to get more revenue. And we went identified and started looking at the competitors, what was happening in the industry? What was happening with their current clients?

How to Approach Client Attraction Systems

What were others pricing? If they’re pricing too
low, will they be taken seriously? And then positioning around that. And then we came up
with a product value map of like, here are the things that you’re actually delivering to your
clients. Here are the things that they’re actually valuing from you.

And they could do it
themselves, but they won’t because it’s hiring a new full team, a manager and in house crew. This is their cost and what it looks like, your pricing should actually be x. And it was a jump. Now he’s doubled that since, since that, right? When you position your pricing and your values
and the transformation that you’re doing to a very specific niche that he wanted to target,
he became the go-to for those particular industries, the insurances, the, the wealth
managers, the, the whole, the whole nine across that.

And when he did that, his positioning changed
and it allowed him to still have the product type service because he was a master of product. He is a master of product, but he still has that same service, but now he’s attracting and serving
at a higher level, solving bigger problems for deeper wallets in a much more fluid way. And it’s less stress for him. Yeah. And his pricing strategy, I guess,
validate this or maybe contradict it.

I would assume that his pricing strategy also
creates conversation because it’s so vastly different than maybe a commoditized vendor
who might be in a similar space or, or, or just sort of a commoditized vendor of those services. Like when he talks with a prospective client, who’s right fit at the right level and so forth,
they may say, wait a minute, you know, this offering over here was like a thousand dollars
and you’re like three times out or whatever the price is, it doesn’t matter, but you’re X above
that. Like, what are you doing that’s different? And then that leads into probably a strategic
conversation. Is that a correct assumption?

Yeah. And also the experience, like we’ve helped this
particular client get this amount of new, new customers or new, new clients over the last 12
months. So there is a positioning and anchoring towards the results, but it’s also not just,
Hey, you know, everyone’s charging X. I’m just going to charge double. There has to be a real
reason for why you’re doing it.

And we have to align to the very specific clientele you want
to work with. What is their worldview? What do they value? For example, the mug that I’m drinking
out of right now, I’m not sure if this is a video recording, but I’m drinking out of a clear mug
here. I could tell you that this mug is $5.

I could tell you that I paid $123 for this mug. What’s the difference? People don’t buy based on what you give them. People buy based on who they
are. And one of the key things too, if you want to dive deeper into pricing strategies, I always
love giving options, a three option strategy, price anchor on the far left hand.

So they see
that number, they either shake or they say, Hey, I want this because I only buy the best. Because you’re not selling to yourself, you’re selling to who they are. Because the pricing
is typically rational. It’s a very rational thing. Here’s the price.

Here’s what it is. You
get it. Value is irrational. And when you present price and value, and the value speaks to your
ideal client, to who they are, their worldview, their decision, their trust factors, and aligning
your products and services to fit that, it’s not a matter of where’s the money. The matter is,
do you see the value here?

Why we’re charging this amount? Why we’re known in the industry for
the results that we get and what can be different in your life and in your business if you work with
us? Yeah. And that’s great, right? Because if you’re having the value conversation, which is
sort of a big bucket, if you will, for outcomes and results, that’s different than the, we’re
going to do these 16 things and here’s the flow chart and we’re going to charge X amount per hour
and that kind of stuff.

Value, outcome, results. So let’s do step into pricing because as you know,
I wanted us to be able to have that conversation for our audience because I know it’s going to be
super helpful. So when you mentioned a real reason for the price and then when you said price anchor,
I’m like, ooh, awesome. We’re totally going to talk about price anchor. Okay.

So give us a
foundation. Give us a definition around that because that’s a term that is often not said. I love it. And I know what you mean by that, but give us a foundation for that. A price anchor is when there’s different ways to execute it.

So let’s dive into that. But
price anchor essentially is when a prospective client sees or hears a price, they attach
the conversation that they’re having with you around that price point. Either it’s big enough
where they shake or they say, oh, that’s interesting. Or like, oh, this is really
expensive. And then when you work with them and you show them options, either A, they’ll buy the
best.

And B, they’ll buy the most. And C, they’ll buy the most. And D, they’ll buy the most. because that’s frankly who they are. And that’s a fascinating conversation to dive into.

Or they buy the mid tier that you want them to work with to you because it’s not as expensive
or it’s not as much as they expected. But this seems more reasonable. It’s like presenting to like multiple options saying this pen is $150 and this one’s just
$50. You’ll still buy the more expensive pen when really the pen is like $3. You can do multiple examples like when you buy suits, you know, you go get a suit, they
give you the $12,000 suit, but then you’re like, it’s too expensive for the unit buying
the $2,000 suit when really you went in there to buy an $800 suit.

So like there’s different ways of presentation. All it is, it’s a sequence of presentations for you to wrap your mind around making a
decision and understanding what you’re getting. When it comes to selling services, this is where you can, and we can have a productized
service conversation here. This is where you can now position your productized service as bespoke solutions to unique problems
for your clients. Because you might have three, five productized services and you could sell them all a cart.

You can be very commoditized. You’ll get this SEO thing, you’ll get this lead generation thing and they’re X amount
of dollars and you can be commoditized that way. But if you combine them or if you start positioning or packaging them together and presenting
them to the clients like, hey, for your specific situation in your industry, here’s what we
can do. And here’s what that would look like. And this is a unique solution, a unique presentation of value to the prospect.

And when you’re working with them and price anchoring, showing you can work at this level
and get all these bells and whistles, but specifically your higher likelihood of speed
to delivery and higher likelihood of success, like time and success where people care for
right in the investment. Or you can work at this level, moderate delivery, moderate time, you’ll still work with the
best. But if you work at this level, it might be slower, but you are paying less. But over time, you’ll still get the results, but it may not be as quickly as you want to. So there’s different factors and dynamics to that.

Okay. I feel like I’m using the words. I love that role. So like, like way too much, but, but here’s, here’s why, here’s why I do love it is because
you’re suggesting that we ought to have like a candid, open, transparent conversation around
pricing as opposed to, as you know, this is what’s typical. You meet with prospective client, gather the details, go back to team.

You have no idea what their budget is because we’re of course, free to ask that question. We go back and spend time with our team, brainstorm, creative session. Oh, let’s come up with this amazing thing or whatever. It’s totally custom. And we create this price and then we try to then pitch it.

And they say, meh, or, or sometimes yes, but oftentimes meh. And what you’re suggesting is actually having a fully transparent conversation about the
value result outcomes and so forth, and having different tiers and, and the client is still
in charge. The client can still choose what they feel is the right level or tier or however you
structure it. Self-select close. Right.

Self-select. Right. So you’re removing sort of the aimlessly wandering through the wilderness to try and
figure out where the client is at. Right? Yeah.

And I call it the bullseye offer because essentially they’re telling you clearly their depth of
commitment and level of commitment. So by depth, meaning how invested are they as a team to work with you to make this happen,
to get the results that they want. So that’s the depth of commitment. But then also they’re committing to time and resources, which is the pricing conversation. So when you position the three tier options, you’re getting both at the same time.

What depth do I want to work with you at? And at what level am I comfortable at? And they tell you, this one feels more like the one that I want to, let’s lean into that. And again, when you’re, we won’t have to dive into like the psychology piece, you had a
wonderful podcast around that one, a good episode around that one, but you have to know who
you’re selling to. You need to know who you’re having a conversation to.

Is this an analyst where they need to see all the data and they play hardball or are
they an emotional visionary like, yeah, let’s go, let’s get the best and go for it. These are different conversations and there’s different ways to present information to them. And the ways that you’re leading the conversation, what they tell you where they’re comfortable. But at the same time, you’re not recreating the wheel. The one key thing for scale, if you truly want to scale, you want to hit whatever number
that is.

If you actually want to double or triple this year, you cannot recreate the wheel every
single time. But you can also not always be looking for the round hole, looking for a round hole or
a square peg, right? You have to be custom and have that flexibility because there are experts out there that try
to trash what I’m saying right now. You have to be bespoke. It has to be unique.

It has to be like a once in an only client situation. But I’m telling you, if you actually want to scale, not be stressed, have the team know
what they’re doing. You have to have a combination of both. And I think it’s like an 80, 20, 80% product ties, 20% bespoke, but it’s not recreating
the wheel every time. Right.

And well, okay, so let’s go back to the three parts that you shared with us a few minutes
ago. When you talk about the three parts, marketing,
product ops, when somebody does what you just described around the pricing piece and it
feels to the client on the other end, the prospective client that they’re in total control,
they’re selecting the result outcomes that they want to get and that kind of stuff. But behind the curtain, you know, your ops team is going to be like, oh, we got another
order for white bread. Great. We got another order for wheat bread.

Great. We got another order for rye. Great. We’re going to slice it on Wednesday. We’re going to get the ingredients on Thursday, Friday, Monday.

We’re back to baking. Now, I’m not suggesting that everyone in our audience should turn themselves into a wonder
bread factory. I am not. But what you’re suggesting is taking pieces of that, taking that methodology, that then
reduces pressure on operations so that they can get things into an actual rhythm as opposed
to everything being custom, which then means everything is heavy, which then you run the
risk of it not being profitable. Right?

Oh, 100%. You don’t just run the risk. You almost guarantee the risk that you’ll be less profitable. And this is from my experience, so it could be biased. But when I’ve seen clients or teams go off the rails, like, hey, we’ll do this, but we’ll
also add this to you.

But with that adding to this, because sales sometimes isn’t always as connected to what’s
actually happening with fulfillment, that might be 1.5x longer than you expected. The team is more burned out. There is less hours for them to work because, you know, we all have hours in the day. The client might be unhappy. You might have to waive fees or etc.

Because there is this alignment between what can we actually offer and what can the team
actually fulfill on where there’s synergy, but it still makes the presentation or the
experience for the client unique. That’s so great. Okay, so one more piece on the pricing piece. And I want to make sure that we get back to client attraction. And I know that we’re quickly, like, I see the sand running through the hourglass.

I know that we’re quickly running out of time. There’s so many more things to talk about. But so with respect to pricing, it sounds like you’re advocating, but I just want to
make sure that I’m that I’m fully tracking with you, that there’s essentially like a
good, better, best, however you want to describe that, a high, medium, low, whatever. But am I understanding that correctly, that you’re suggesting like a good, better, best
type model? And if so, if yes, what’s the math that you use?

Like, you figure out the midpoint and then you back it off to find the low and then you
up it to do the high, like whatever the math is behind that, would love to know that too. So yeah, so it is great, best, good, but it’s all around, they’ll get the same result. It just depends on timeline and the investment and the outcomes at the level of involvement. Now pricing or the actual number is not made up from air. This is all around what I call profit design.

When I built agencies, when I built companies, when I designed teams, I always have these
three functions. And regardless of what kind of company, right, there are three key functions. There’s the driver, the operator, and the specialist. Typically the driver is the one who pours life into the client, the client relationship,
increases LTV, supports on strategy, develops new strategy, can upsell, cross sale, and
then leads their little team. The operator is making sure that things are happening together within that team.

And the specialist is the one that’s actually executing the work. Typically the team may be as small as three, but the way that I like to design, I call
them task units, is one driver, one operator, either two or three specialists. The specialists are the ones that manage clients. So you can scale horizontally, you can scale vertically by adding clients to specialists. That’s scaling vertically.

Scaling horizontally is adding another specialist to your task unit. I separate this team’s P&L or their revenue contribution entirely different. So we have to first calculate your overhead as a company. Your overhead, this is a point of contention, do you want to have owners pay in overhead
or do you want to have that as owners pay after you make the revenue? So that’s up to you.

So you calculate that. And then when you design your task unit, we look at what is their, how many clients are
they managing? What is the average, but currently what is the average order value or the average revenue
per client? When you want to buffer in, what is the profit I want to see? You will profit in overhead for the clients, for all the clients.

How many clients are managing? So overhead divided by total number of clients multiplied how many clients the actual task
unit is managing, budgeting in their salaries, and then budgeting how much they’re actually
managing in revenue. And then from there, seeing if the profit number is where you want to see it. I typically like to design for 40, 35% on the men, but 40% profit margins on every project. And that’s where you identify where am I doing it right?

Or where am I doing it wrong? Do I have overpaid staff who have too many people? Is my overhead too high? Is my pricing too low? Are we not serving enough clients?

What is my number of ideal clients that I want to serve? You start looking at this formula and designing this formula,
then you can identify what is the pricing that I cannot go under. That’s your baseline pricing. Now you take that number,
and then you look at the scope of work that you’re actually going to execute. When you do the three tier approach and you make sure that whatever you pitch,
even if it’s the, the, the third option,
it has to be above the minimum amount for you to be at the profit number that
you want to be at.

Fantastic. I think it’s great because it takes the hourly rate conversation a bit deeper
and also it gets back to the value piece, the, the, the result outcomes. So let’s, let’s go back to the client attraction piece. And so what is, what, what might be a golden nugget or two that when,
let’s say, let me give you this scenario. When,
when you said client attraction isn’t correct, let’s just assume that it isn’t.

That it isn’t correct. But you know that,
that your client wants to obviously improve their client attraction. What are,
what are some of the golden nuggets that you might suggest that they get into
their process that would help them attract right fit clients? Give you a real, real example, real client. Great products.

Attraction is unpredictable. Like, okay. Like and I love the name of your, your company predictable. All right. A hundred percent.

How do we get aligned to being predictable? There’s a few things on the operations front that you can do in terms of
creating the right habits and we can dive into that. But when it comes to the attraction piece, lead generation and sales,
it’s lining up those key habits that your team is doing because every company
comprises of different habits that either you do,
someone else does or a machine does and aligning those habits to the key
activities. When it comes to client attraction,
it’s going back to what we mentioned earlier is like,
who is it specifically that you’re attracting today out of those who are the
highest LTVs? Why are they the highest LTVs?

How can we get to know what’s going on in their minds? What’s happening in the market? What are the trends that are happening? How do our products align to those core emotions? And then from there designing an acquisition model.

And typically I like to do three tier approach when it comes to like looking at
acquisition or designing acquisition models. The first is leveraging,
leveraging your existing clientele because referrals is the one key thing. Everyone always wants to get new clients,
but we always forget you have clients and what referral strategies,
what introduction strategies, what, how can we duplicate each client right now? That’s the number one question we should be asking. How do you duplicate each client right now with, with, with their help?

That’s the first thing. The second thing is looking at,
how do you capture existing demand in the marketplace? Then we look at, you know, demand capture strategies, direct response,
inbound marketing, et cetera. And then the third is who are strategic partners or strategic alliances? Who can we partner with to leverage existing audiences?

And then you have your top of funnel, the education, the value add,
the demand creation piece. And that is the longer term approach. We have to build for today and for the future. So those are the attraction pieces,
but it’s all around the positioning of what makes you significantly different. And when I work with you, what is the transformation I’m going to receive?

If you can make that into one simple emotion, one simple statement,
because we all have these elevator pitches. We all have like, and I,
and I’m saying this with my eyes closed, like it’s slimy, like no one,
no one cares about your elevator. They care about what can you do for me? And how can you explain that in a way where it’s different? Could you design your own category because you’re solving a unique,
a unique problem in a unique way that no one’s ever heard before.

You’re leveraging new technologies and your costs are super low or you’re
leveraging these new technologies. You comprise it in your own IP. Like how are you solving the problem? And it all goes in inwardly,
looking in first and less about what’s happening with my competitors. Here’s what this other person is doing.

Here’s how high they’re jumping for that. That’s irrelevant. If you want to play that game,
you will always play the comparison game. Let’s play the different game. How are you different?

I went when you mentioned category that that reminded me of the episode that I
think just aired or aired just last week with Kevin Maney,
who’s one of the co authors of the book play bigger. And he and his team of coauthors,
Christopher Lockhead and some others are big in the category design piece. And so when you, when you said, you know, creating your own category,
that’s great because like it takes the,
it takes the niche piece to the nth degree. It creates so much strength and authority in the marketplace that you really
know how to deliver the result outcomes that you’re promising because you have
this great track record and doing it over and over and over again. And it’s so different than anybody else.

When you mentioned the third piece,
when you said designing an acquisition model and you were talking about, you know,
number one, leveraging existing clients, number two, capturing demand. And then the third, when we said, you know,
who are the strategic partners to leverage audiences? There are partners who are, who are serving clients in different ways,
but they’re serving the clients that you want to be able to serve. And then do those partners have a pond? Like it do,
have they built a community?

Do they host an event? Like it’s almost like a fish in the barrel type strategy where you can
And then go to that pond and maybe teach something smart and share something generous and be
helpful inside that pond. And then every time someone in that pond turns around, there you are with a helpful answer. That’s a great way to attract clients. Would you agree?

That’s the best way to attract clients. And it really goes back to who you want to be in the marketplace and what kind of business
I have friends and clients that are doing the outreach approach. And they’re always having conversations and introducing themselves. I have others who’ve never spent a lick on marketing because they were A, too busy with
referrals. And I was just talking to another agency owner here in San Diego.

He’s up north. But he considers himself and his agency like the black Amex card of agencies. It’s only by introduction or referral only. That’s a great strategy. That’s a great position.

I want to work with you, but I need the invite, right? So it goes back again to the design. Who do you want to be in your company? Where do you want to take your company? Do you want to have 12 clients and only max 12 clients?

Do you want to have 40 clients and do that? I’ve known agency owners that churned and burned 100 clients because that was their
life cycle. Three to six months. And it’s just like systemized and systemized and systemized. High stress.

Is that the life you want to live? It always begins with that question, which is why it’s overlooked. What are you designing for? That’s where I always start. And then working backwards from that to match the positioning, the team, the stressors,
the outcomes that you want to encounter, because we’re all going to encounter them.

Why not choose? I’m totally putting you on the spot here. Would you say yes to coming back for an encore? Absolutely. Okay.

So all joking aside here, the reason why I’m saying that, Raul, or asking you is because
like there are two really big things that I would love to talk with you about that were
just unfortunately have run out of time. And that is the how to productize your services. We touched slightly on it, but I really want to get into the how, and then also the embracing
and incorporating AI into the agency, the coaching practice, the consultancy would really
love to get your insights and wisdom around that. And here’s why I say that in sort of like I’m setting up the encore that we’re going
to do here in the future, because you said one of your clients, like their specific strategy
is attracting three to five whales per year, and then focusing on productized services. And my guess is that really struck a chord with some members of our audience.

They’re like, oh, wait a minute. And then leaning into that and wanting to learn more about, well, like how is that person
doing that? Like I want to learn how to do that. So would love to be able to have that conversation with you because I think it’d be really helpful. Absolutely.

I’m always open for it. Okay. So I know we need to come in for a landing here, but before we go, before we close out
and say goodbye, uh, any, any advice that you think we, we missed or any recommendations,
any final thoughts, uh, and then please share with our audience the best way to connect
with you, bro. I think the one final thought to be, to be very candid to everyone listening here is
that appreciate the level of success that you’ve gone to. I was talking to another client, we were doing, we’re doing an event and so much stress because
event season is to have 600 people is a lot, right?

I was like, Hey, isn’t this awesome? Like this came from a vision from our founder, like 20, I don’t know how many years ago,
but here we are having the situation. Isn’t that awesome? I think it’s important to always reflect on that because as you are in the, in the intersection
or the inflection point of growth, it’s good to look at the past and then look at the future. And what does that future entail in designing towards the future of where you’re called
to where your team’s called to the markets and the clients that you want to serve?

Um, so I think it’s always important to reflect on that where it comes to anyone to, to want
to actually dive into these strategies. I, uh, I’ll give everyone here free access to the book. Like you can just go to the book, also with plan, if you go to do good work.io forward
slash S W a, uh, again, do good work.io that’s input output forward slash S W a, you get
all the resources, get the book for free. Thanks Steven. Uh, for that later.

But, uh, yeah, we’ll do every single strategy we actually talked about today is in the book. So phenomenal. Okay. And we will include that link, uh, in the show notes too. So S W a for sell with authority.

Fantastic. And, and thanks for your generosity and sharing your smarts, uh, in the book too. Um, and, and sharing that with our audience and okay, everyone, no, no matter how many
notes you took, uh, or how often you go back and relisten to Raul’s words of wisdom, which
I sure hope that you do. The key is you have to take what he so generously shared with you, take it and apply it. And if you do, you’ll accelerate result outcomes.

You just will by taking an appliance. So don’t just listen, take an apply in Raul. We all have the same 86,400 seconds in a day. And I am grateful that you said yes to come onto the show, uh, and be so generous in helping
us move our businesses, uh, onward to that next level. Thank you so much, my friend.

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Snippet of transcribed content:
but here we are having the situation. Isn’t that awesome?

I think it’s important to always reflect on that because as you are in the, in the intersection
or the inflection point of growth, it’s good to look at the past and then look at the future. And what does that future entail in designing towards the future of where you’re called
to where your team’s called to the markets and the clients that you want to serve? Um, so I think it’s always important to reflect on that where it comes to anyone to, to want
to actually dive into these strategies. I, uh, I’ll give everyone here free access to the book. Like you can just go to the book, also with plan, if you go to do good work.io forward
slash S W a, uh, again, do good work.io that’s input output forward slash S W a, you get
all the resources, get the book for free.

Thanks Steven. Uh, for that later. But, uh, yeah, we’ll do every single strategy we actually talked about today is in the book. So phenomenal. Okay.

And we will include that link, uh, in the show notes too. So S W a for sell with authority. Fantastic. And, and thanks for your generosity and sharing your smarts, uh, in the book too. Um, and, and sharing that with our audience and okay, everyone, no, no matter how many
notes you took, uh, or how often you go back and relisten to Raul’s words of wisdom, which
I sure hope that you do.

The key is you have to take what he so generously shared with you, take it and apply it. And if you do, you’ll accelerate result outcomes. You just will by taking an appliance. So don’t just listen, take an apply in Raul. We all have the same 86,400 seconds in a day.

And I am grateful that you said yes to come onto the show, uh, and be so generous in helping
us move our businesses, uh, onward to that next level. Thank you so much, my friend. It’s been an honor to be a small part of the journey. Timestamped segments truncated to fit terminal limit (5000 chars). Completed transcription, JSON saved to /home/ubuntu/audio/client_attraction_system_transcription_20260321_111352.json
Plain text transcription saved to /home/ubuntu/audio/client_attraction_system_transcription_20260321_111352.txt